That the record industry was collapsing helped them. Because there were no impatient corporate expectations to meet, they could grow at their own pace. “We never had a breakthrough moment,” says Matt. “People seemed to fall for us after listening to our records many, many times. The corporate model has collapsed, but small-label bands playing to 200 people a night can pay the bills and raise a family on it. That’s why we’ll have better and more interesting innovations.”